I know that we probably will never quite agree on whether Barack Obama is a socialist, but I'd like to point out that U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders is a socialist, and that he's the only one in the Senate that I know of. (I did not originate this line; maybe it was Deval Patrick?)

It all depends on degree, and on perspective, I suppose.

But, for example, I think Hillary's healthcare plan is a tad more socialist than is Barack's. I suppose that doesn't matter much in the grand scheme, but what can I say? I am a "cult member." ;-)

"It all depends on degree, and on perspective, I suppose."

Fair enough.

I would argue that they are not actual Socialists, but are very fond of many Socialist ideas, and wouldn't mind going all the way towards becoming Socialists if it meant that they could achieve their Utopian vision for this country. Frankly, as long as people have free will, I don't think that vision is ever going to come to fruition. Government can't -- and shouldn't -- do everything. It's already doing too much. And doing too much poorly.

Sometimes I can't help but shudder when I hear some of the plans both candidates have (for the reasons Bill suggests). I really don't see much difference between them on a policy level.

But like Joe, I'm a "cult member." Obama wasn't my first choice, but he's the right guy at this moment in time. Some people discredit that position, but it's more important than a "pro" such as Hillary thinks.

Also, I can't stand to hear Hillary Clinton speak. And I absolutely mean that.

Without trying to hijack the thread, part of me felt that the GOP candidates sucked from day one. Most of them (with the exception of Paul the nutjob) were incredibly liberal prior to their Presidential campaigns. BUT John McCain is far and away the best choice.