So Bill, how many illegal immigrants have been trampling all over you? What they do, take your low-paying farm job or something?

The backbone of the Capitalist system, and this is what the super-leftist realize, is a largea mount of cheap labor. The entire thing works kindof like a pyramid. Stopping illegal immigrants from entering our country both hinders economic growth and anti-free market.

First paragraph: illogical nonsense
Second paragraph: Illegal immigration kills middle class wages, erodes companies' willingness to give benefits, devalues native-born labor, spurs an increase in crime -- especially in border towns, allow terrorists to piggy-back into country, depletes healthcare budgets while increasing health care costs, sucks up other social service budgets while failing to put a comparable amount of money back in, allows a free flow of illegal drugs, and GIVES A NICE BIG MIDDLE FINGER TO THOSE WHO BOTHERED TO ENTER THE COUNTRY LEGALLY.

If WE don't care about our laws, why should they?

Bill, you are right that border crossing from the south is high, but not just because we have porous borders and weak law enforcement. The high rate of Meso and South American immigrants has been energized by a relative "greener pasture" hope for them, but only because those pastures produce "low-wage jobs" that most legitimate Americans will not work. This is not a good situation. And then you have Bush--in an attempt to garner more Hispanic votes and satisfy corporate businessmen who want low-wage workers--proposing a temporary 3-year work visa for those who are illegal. Not surprisingly, it was Reagan who signed into law the IRCA (Immigration Reform and Control Act) that legitimized 2.7 million, mostly Mexican, illegals overnight. I remember this act, for I was in California where farmers were literally profitting from Reagan's move.

I am continually learning to "shut up and listen" to points of view that may differ from my own conclusions on things. In this spirit, I want to understand the fear I sense (smell?) coming from these so-called Minutemen and their apologists at the WT. Asking questions is one good way of increasing one's understanding, hence:

Were the European "settlers" in the 17th century cognizant of or concerned about following the laws of, say, the Five Nations? Is the healthcare crisis component caused by illegal immigrants any worse than the smallpox epidemics that killed off a huge amount of "native-born labor?"

Is the INS, especially now under Homeland Security, efficient and competent so as to properly document immigrants as they attempt to legally make their way here?

Is there evidence that terrorists (not just wannabes) have indeed piggybacked onto illegal migration, specifically from the South? (Related: did Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph sneak in from Guadalajara?)

I have more, but as indicated, I'll shut up and listen first.

John: You are dead-on on this matter. I wholeheartedly agree,
and Bush's actions in the situation are one of the things he's done in office that I disagree with most.

Joe: it all depends what these men do. It would behoove you to read up on their plans -- in THEIR words -- and then compare what you read with how their plans have been REPORTED.

The overaching sentiment -- at least in the majority of the press -- is much like Josiah's: "Aw, shucks. Let 'em in, they're good, hard-working people."

My argument is that that argument is irrelevant.

>Were the European "settlers" in the 17th century cognizant of or concerned about following the laws of, say, the Five Nations?

No, but it was a VASTLY different time...

>Is the healthcare crisis component caused by illegal immigrants any worse than the smallpox epidemics that killed off a huge amount of "native-born labor?"

Not in terms of deaths, but in terms of dollars it's far worse.

>Is the INS, especially now under Homeland Security, efficient and competent so as to properly document immigrants as they attempt to legally make their way here?

No, not quite. The set-up is not working, and is actually getting worse.

>Is there evidence that terrorists (not just wannabes) have indeed piggybacked onto illegal migration, specifically from the South?

15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists should have been DENIED visas under then-existing laws. And those were the ones being checked. They were stamped right through. Not only are we not doing a good job of keeping illegals out, we're not even properly checking the ones we check.

Ever been outside of this country? I'll be the first to chip in on a "Send Bill to Central America Campaign."

Chris-

I HAVE been outside of the country. I understand why people want to come here. But the more we turn a blind eye to our giving away what generations have worked so hard for -- and died for -- what'll be left about America that's so great? Not much.

Why does anybody bother coming here legally anymore? what does it say about the people that bother coming here legally? Are they suckers? When the President of Mexico says it is a crime for us to enforce our laws -- and a great portion of our country AGREES WITH HIM -- we have a problem.

If I went to any other country, I'd have to play by their rules, language, culture, etc. to varying degrees. Not here. We are a neverending Santa Claus that never asks for anything in return. One day, however, Santa's bag will be empty, and we'll have to go bumming off the new Santa Claus.