The Holtonian

They do have some underrated talent on the team...guys who aren't stars but can play (unlike the Yankees who's stars can't play) ;)

Don't you also think their bullpen could be stronger?

Well, when Isringhausen gets back, I think the bullpen is pretty spectacular. While Izzy can lose a game, he's been stronger this year (before the recent muscle strain) than the past couple and with King and Tavarez (wait for him to get going - he'll get there) I think they should be as solid as last year - yeah, it would be nice to have kept Kline or some of the others, but man, having Mulder sure is sweet. Besides, when your team can score 8 runs without breaking a sweat and your starters are generally pitching deep, who really needs a great bullpen?

Go ahead and brag, I think you proabably have a few years of it ahead of you. Your off season aquisitions have only improved your squad and your bullpen is sound.

As a Cub fan, I never believed all the hype for this year - but it was fun to ponder getting into the wild card spot. Our bats are probably as solid as your lineup, but our pitching staff is a mess and likely will be that way for a while. Now it'll be fortunate if we finish a solid second in the Central.

Stelmo dad: I'm not sure which cubs games you're watching because I would in no way compare the offense of the cubs to that of the cards. The cards have several superstars in their line up, though i'd argue their superstars are all low key. I'm not tryign to rub it in since I root for the cubs every now and then, but I truly think they have one of the weakest offenses in the central, Houston's would be weaker in my opinion. I'd probably even put Miluake's over Chicagos.

Scott: the bullpen last year was amazing, and keeping that one in tact was a hard act to do. But I'd agree with the starness of the cards, its low key. Mcquire was the one super star they ever really had... besides Ozzie Smith, but even Mcquire was low key off the field. We don't have a Jeter, Beltran, Arod... but then again few teams do.

Thunder Sunder: Kline had to go unfortunately his attitude was getting on Larussa's nerves. Kline was a little cocky, though good. Taverz will be good, i like his tenacity. Any guy who breaks his hand for punching a phone and then goes out to pitch despite his own stupidity influenced injury is cool by me. In other words, he was an idiot for punchign the wall but he made up for it and went out and pitched despite having a hand the size of Rhode Island.

The cards are good this year. Mulder was a key aquisition and losing Renteria and womack hasn't hurt the team so far at all. I've been impressed with Gruzalanek and eckstein hasn't been terrible. The starting pitching needs to get a little better and the hitting needs to be a little more consistent. I would like it if they toned it up a notch and started scoring 10 runs a game like they did last year almost everytime. But the central is pretty locked up it looks like. The wild card in my opinion will be either Atlanta or florida, which ever doesn't win the division.

I sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with your impressions of the Cubs offense. I will admit to being an irrational Cubs fan, but I am actually fairly unbiased baseball fan.

The top six of their order can compete with most in the majors and when Walker gets back in the lineup it'll bolster even more. If Milwaukee beats the Cubs in offense this year in the central I'll buy you lunch.

The Cards have low key superstars? You have Pujols, Edmonds and Rolen - probably three of the best hitters in baseball (though I do enjoy watching Edmonds go through his slumps). If you mean do they get the attention they deserve - they don't, but it because the sports shows care about ratings and St. Louis is a mid-market team. Pujols has been a stud for three years and he's just starting to get some limelight.

"But the central is pretty locked up it looks like. The wild card in my opinion will be either Atlanta or florida, which ever doesn't win the division."

It would be pretty hard for Atlanta or Florida to win the Central division. Maybe you meant that one of those two teams is going to win the East division (as they have done before), while the other will be a wild card team?

Scott anyone would/should know that Atlanta and Florida are not in the Central, I'm assuming that my readers know more than jack about baseball. That is why it reads... "The central is pretty locked up" here i input a miraculous thing called a period because my thought on this matter is done. Then I start up a new thought, "The wild card..." Now should I have put a "however" or another transitive type word in? Yes but since when do i care about grammar or my thoughts sounding coherent?

just busting yoru chops as you do mine...

Yeah, I'll have to agree with the Cubs fan (I shiver as hell must be freezing over) that the Cards are slighted when it comes to big names. I remember three years ago when Griffey complained that Edmonds was getting too much time on sportscenter. Pujols is getting his props, and I think he is even the single baseball player on the intro to either baseball tonight or sportscenter.

The Cubs have some pop with Perez and Burnitz hitting and Derrek Lee playing out of his head. The problem with the Cubs is that their strength is also their weakness. They keep expecting Wood to actually pitch a whole year, which will never happen, and Zambrano needs to learn how to keep from blowing his top, because his stuff is electric.

I also disagree with the fact that the starting pitching needs to get better. Our starters have ERA's of 2.25, 2.85, 2.93, 3.23, and 3.86. That's as good as it gets!! Our bullpen is what we lost with Caliro, Kline, and Harren (although he would have started this year). This team is solid and when Izzy gets back, watch out (not to mention Eldred who is coming off the DL).

All of this and Cardinals still aren't hitting, which won't last (Pujols has jumped up ~.340 in a couple of weeks from ~280).

The ATL gig wasn't much besides the Cards beating themselves. They left 23 runners on base in the two losses and only lost each game by 1. I wouldn't read too much into that.

The "are" in the first line is supposed to an an "aren't" when talking about the Cards getting slighted.

How about a new paragraph and a spell checker?

I like my pork chops cooked medium, so let's not over do it. ;)

ho hum. the cards will win 100+ games again this year and be worn out come playoff time. better to save it up for september, win the wild card with some serious mojo, enlist a cubs fan to spark a rally, and mow down the yanks in the series. or something like that.

I say we talk about baseball all summer long. It's so much more refreshing than the other topics of late.

And this is the most mileage Holton has gotten out of a post in a long time, too. Keep up the baseball banter!

Bobw, as a lifelong Cubs-hater, that was the next best thing to the Cards actually making the playoffs. Poor Bartman, bearing the all the frustration and anger of the fans of the only actively cursed team (Damn the Cardinals for letting the other see the light of day again...may that day never come for the Cubs).

I hope you're right about the 100+ and wrong about the fatigue. No matter what, the summer is the time of the year I have something to watch almost every night, if I'm not actually at the park.

Haze, how can anyone be a lifelong Cubs hater? I haven't hated any baseball team for more than a few seasons - usually because of a few players.

I must admit, I didn't like the Braves for a few years - they won too much and it felt unnatural, but I've come to respect their system and Bobby Cox as a manager. The Cubs certainly aren't in that category - we've sucked for years.

If you don't like their owners, I might back you up there. This franchise has saved their financial butts over the last decade yet they'd rather drop dead than let their payroll drift much over a 100 mil.

Anyway, no accusations, just questions.

Well, anyone with an eye on the AL is going to see Ozzie Guillen and his wrecking crew go to work on the other teams. I'm not necessarily a fan, it's just fun to watch.

But, it's interesting how they're having trouble with the Devil Rays. Then again, the Devil Rays have also won series against the Red Sox and Yankees.

Well Cubs-hater isn't in the same "hate" class as say, Giants-hater, but with the Cubs personal as of late it's getting close.

It use to be the fun old Cubs, rub their head and kick em in the butt on the way out the door like that annoying neighbor kid. But the team has been feeding on a steady diet of a-holes in the last few years, and especially since the Lizard (aka Dusty Baker) has come to town. They play with so little class, as clearly seen in the attitudes of Zambrano, Woods, Prior and those now passed on like Sosa (that fake public image the guy had was a total fraud as chronicled by Chicago's own Skip Bayless) and Alou.

I don't think the pitchers attitudes are just competition either. Plenty of good pitchers let their stuff speak for them, but not Cubs big three who can't resist running their mouth when they're rollin. I get that though, and if they had a good manager it might be reduced to just a few outbursts, but Dusty cultivates that stuff. It's why he loved people like Bonds, Santiago and Lofton. No-class likes to surround themselves with the same. I can’t say enough about how bad for the Cubs Dusty has been, he really turned a respected organization into what we see now in no time.

The difference between the Cards and Cubs was clear the way each finished the last series against each other in the last two year. In '03 the Cards went to Chicago with one last chance and the Cubs handed it to them. The Cards sucked it up and played with pros. Last year, the Cubs had a big series in St. Louis just before the Cards ran away with it. Instead of playing like pros when they were going down...they beaned multiple batters (it think Zambrano hit Edmonds twice and cussed him out after he hit a bomb off of him) and talked smack the whole time.

Not exactly the old lovable Cubs of the past you're talking about. The real dislike (not just the fun rivalry) is new in the last couple of years.