Here's my thing. Music people, musicians, record company's, and the joe shmoe who runs the cd machine over in china or somehwhere aren't probably big fans of burning or copying or downloading music for free off the internet. Neither are the American courts, who have upheld the copy right laws even when the record companies went after little children.
My thing is always this, in a murky issue as this can be put yourself in say the Garage Band's shoes. If you were a garage band trying to make it big, would you want people getting your music for free? Probably early on you would to get the word of mouth out, but once word was out, you'd want people to start ponying up to the bar to pay for your music. And why shouldn't you? You have no right to get it for free... you didn't make it, you did not arrange those musical notes, sing those tunes, or even pay for the equipment to record that music. So why should you get the priviledge of listening to some music without having to pay any of the costs?
A friend of mine, Bintz as he is called, put it this way: God gives us gifts. Bintz is a teacher, his gift is explaining how to do calculus to little teenagers, Roe's gift is computers and talking people into doing things they're not really sure if they want to do (not sure if that latter one is truly a gift but he's good at it nevertheless), my gift is managing accounts and performing settlements at a large corporate company (thats not a gift but putting up with the corporate world is). We all get paid for these gifts, and we've turned our gifts into an occupation which, is our lively hood. This is A. How we keep the economy going by making money that we can therefore go spend B. It is how we earn money to live and provide for those around us or ourselves. A musician makes money by using their musical gifts to make cds, mp3s, or do live concerts. They sell they're art, if you will, to provide for themselves food, shelter, and most of the time mind bending drugs that allow them to make more music. However with the advent of mp3's cds are no longer necessarily necessary, so they're not really making as much as they could on cds anymore. And with Mp3s you can download from various sites without paying a nikel back or a nickel creek. iIlegally downloading a song, or having a buddy of yours burn a cd for you that you're too cheap to buy yourself is getting something for nothing. In no way have you contributed to the capitalist game (minus computer cost and cd-r costs). you haven't provided money to the musican who actually made the music. It was they're ideas, they're creativity or hackiness that put that music together and they in turn are done the dis-service of not being paid for their services. Or in the case of downloading a movie, did you spend monthes to years making this movie? Did you write a script, direct, act, produce, and distribute this movie? No you didn't do didly squat. You clicked a few buttons and downloaded something that isn't yours. Or for a video game. This one really ticks me off because only one Video game company really probably makes a proffit and thats EA, all the others are probably just getting by, its a hard biz to crack. Games retail for about 50 bucks, expensive yes, but still can be worth it. You get it from some shmuck you hacked is way past the codes and put it out on the net. So basically the video game company which spend monthes to years developing this game gets jack squat because you're too cheap, lazy, or apathetic to care you've taken money out of other people's pockets. Plus if you have a cash problem wait a year cause games go down to 10 bucks after a year, i know i buy the 10 dollar games from best buy all the time.
Now do i think cds are overpriced? Yes, way too expensive. Does that justify burning a cd? No, in no way do i have a right as a citizen, a person, or especially a christian to take something that doesn't rightfully belong to me. It amazes me how many Christians don't have a problem with burning cds, downloading entire movies off the internet, or downloading entire computer games. I mean these industries, granted still pull in millions of dollars and the artists will see more in a year than I will ever see, but that doesn't justify a thing. I'm not saying Christians are not immune to the same temptations as non christians, but to see how many people Xtian and non Xtian, just shluff it off as, "Eh one cd won't hurt em.... its just burning a cd.... its no big deal..... well my pastor does it.... well my buddy does it and he's a better guy than me so....." It astounds me.
I've always been somewhat of a legalist even prior to coming to Christianity. When something is against the law, you just don't do it. To me its pretty simple like that. I've never done drugs because, its wrong, its against the law, you don't do things that are against the law. You can find loop holes in the law, wiggle an interpretation into a copyright, but you're still just trying to justify something that is wrong. And logically I can't see how you can justify getting something for nothing. Unless the artist or company gives it away and says, "here this song is on the house" or "this movie is free it sucked.. and we won't make a dime on it..."
I'm sorry but those ads that come on before the movie showing the set designer and "Piracy affects me..." those really get to me.... I always feel guilty.... "Was there ever a movie I watched that i didn't get legally????"
As you work in your cube, or your desk, or whatever it is you do, think about it this way.... Would you want to do whatever it is you do: Program, answer phones, work customer service, wait tables, mow grass, sell newspapers: Whatever it is: WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT WITHOUT GETTING PAID? If so, then you're a socialist and in the wrong country. Last time I checked this was America, we paid for what we have, and worked for what we got. Pay the artists for what they create, even if you think its overpriced, even if you think you've outwhitted the copy right law, and even if you think you're a socialist.
Yes it is illegal, but hard to resist. Just like copying TV programs with the VCR or speeding on the highway. I just keep music for backups of my friends...haha.
Posted by: Strow at June 11, 2004 10:47 AMJust to clarify, I wasn't trying to belittle theft by bringing up VCR's and speeding. I was just trying to make the point that Christians often go off on a tangent about certain issues when there are more important issues we should deal with...like abortion (which it seems many Christians have given up on) Our laws concerning copyright infringement and Internet file sharing change constantly...mainly due to changing technologies (Internet, CD burners, DVD burners, etc) and it seems there isn't really a definite answer as to what is allowed and what isn't allowed to be shared over the Internet. (TV producers wanted to outlaw the VCR when it first came out because they knew people would tape programs without paying. How many of us do this without even thinking about the legality of it?) In college I wrote about Copyright Infrigement on the Internet in my senior paper and really couldn't come up with a conclusion as to what was really legal. Most of us saw the rise and fall of Napster but then there was Kazaa which is basically the same kind of program but uses peer-to-peer sharing. As far as I know Kazaa is still very popular and hasn't been shut down. Is it illegal? Last I heard peer-to-peer sharing was still legal, I don't really know, maybe it changed in the past week...I don't always keep up.
The Internet has given us so many things for free and it's obviously hard to decide (for us and the government) what should be allowed to be free. For me personally, I wouldn't feel like I'm stealing when I read the news online, look at famous artwork online, read a short story, send a free email, etc. This is what the Internet provides and until our laws decide what is illegal, I don't see a problem with using programs like Kazaa (in certain ways I would consider using this illegal), or reading the news without paying for a newspaper, or borrowing a friend's CD or movie without paying a viewing/listening fee. Being a Christian I consider theft wrong and I don't steal (as far as I know). There are certain things that our government has legalized that I feel Christians should not take part in, such as abortion or the recent gay marriage thing. I wonder why I even bother talking about this issue when our country continues to abort babies? Christians should always be analyzing their lives, reading their Bibles, and striving to be more Godly. (If you feel that by downloading a file for free is theft, then don't do it) In the Information Age, information has become very cheap and often free. Should we pay for it? Maybe someday we will, but right now we don't.
It's kind of fun replying to myself, maybe I'll argue against myself later. Now I'm going to go check the online classifieds...or maybe I'll just buy a newspaper.
Posted by: Strow at June 11, 2004 01:48 PMMany good points Strow, but after reading about it, it seems that p2p programs like Kazaa share many illegal files but are not illegal in and of themselves. I try to just stay away from things that might be sins but I'm unsure of, like smoking.
Posted by: Jesse at June 11, 2004 02:09 PMThe problem with some of your arguments is your comparing apples to oranges.
When you read the news online your also being bombarded with ads. And these
webads provide pay for the people who write those web articles, take those
web pictures on the yahoo news, so in a sense in a wierd relation you're not
reading the news for free because you witness and come into contact with ads
which in turns pay the salaries of people doing the work to provide that
information. This is how TV works too.
Also recording shows on TV is not necessarily illegal. Since tv is a
free media, you can record a tv show to say watch the next day. You can't
record something then sell it, that is illegal. You can record for person
use and some shows require you to get written permision to do so before
hand.
A newspaper is another interesting one. I haven't paid for a
newspaper for a long time because the guys next to me at work get them
everyday and by noon they're done with them and i take them and then read
them. Again the whole ads come into play thats how papers make their money,
selling subcriptions and papers is only a marginal part of the business. The
true money comes from ads, this is how the Enigma, Pulse and Scene stay in
bizness. They sell the ads so they can give their paper for free to their
patrons. Plus the paper was purchased at one point by a person, and when
they are done with that their possession of it has ended, and if they wanted
to they could probably sell it to me for half price, but they choose to just
give it to me and give me a dirty look for never paying a cent for it.
What you seem to forget jesse in your arguments is the internet
already makes money off advertising so these things you think you're getting
for free you're paying with your time. And if you read the copy right laws
there pretty easy to understand, its the people reading them that make them
more complicated as they try to twist their own interpretation to justify
taking something without paying for it.
Also my argument is kind of saying, "regardless of the letter of the
law, if you were a musican would you want to do it for free?" Answer is no,
unless you want to go back to the days when Lords payed musicians to be
their private entertainers, i don't want to go back to the day of the
traveling minstrel. Also if you want your music for free, then how are
musicans going to make money? Should they start doing product placements in
their songs to earn their keep? Bono could start singing, "IN THE NAME OF
COKE, I WANT A SODA IN THE NAME OF COKE!!!!" That would stink and be lame.
Plus jesse, understand, that if a company desides to give something
away, they can do that. However most artists, musicans, game programmers,
etc, don't want their stuff to be taken from them for free, they want
compensation. And they should be rightfully compensated for the work they've
done. There's a legal issue, and a right vs wrong issue.
Last night a I downloaded a free program, I tunes. Apple hopes that
I like I tunes and then in turn pay to download songs off their website. I
tunes helps play the songs, so they figure offer that for free and then
people may be more inclined to use their music service to get their music. I
might, not any time soon though.
Plus to say why talk about this issue when there are "more major
Issues" out there is a pretty rediculous statement. Sure there are bigger
fish to fry, I agree, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't move on all fronts
against sin and against what is wrong. The police don't say, "Ok this week
we're only going after murders. There are a lot of robberies going on
recently, and in fact the entire city is the midst of a riot, but only
arrest murderers this week because we just need to focus on one thing at a
time."
Information is not free, money is being exchanged for that
information. It might not be coming out of your pocket, but the companies
putting that info online are still making money. Yahoo makes a ton of money
off me by me looking at Yahoo news, because there are a lot of ads on the
website that companies paid to be on there, and in turn people see those
ads, respond and use said product and the capitalist cycle continues. When
you download something off the internet, the person who created that thing
(music, movie, game) is left out of the loop a lot of times.
And you can borrow a cd of your friends, thats fine. But you can't
borrow one and then copy that music. I knew a bunch of people who did that
at covenant to me (I had a good cd collection), and I had no idea, and then
they told me and I asked them not to do it anymore. It really bothered me
because for starters, I paid 10 to 15 bucks for that music and they were
bumming it off of me, they didn't spend but a few cents for a cd-r or
nothing if they just put it on their hard drive.
Good discussion.
Posted by: holtoch at June 12, 2004 12:53 AMI have stopped all my (illegal) downloading... even when I was using Kaaza a year or so ago, it was always one or two songs here and there, or live tracks, as opposed to full albums. In retrospect, downloading singles instead of albums didn't make it right, but I did justify it to myself that way.
Posted by: John at June 12, 2004 11:51 PMJohn, i must confess as a fellow U2 geek, I do have some bootlegs, but to me those don't seem as illegal since you can't really purchase them. Plus all those songs that are on the concert i have the studio copy of which may in some way make it ok. I don't know how bootlegs work, i realize a lot of bands don't want there stuff bootlegged, but then if you want a live copy of it and they don't have any published how do you get it? I know Phish they want their stuff bootlegged and I've heard Dave matthews doesn't care, but they do publish it so not sure how that works. U2 has published a few concerts, but the one i have boot legged is a classic. 1989 new year's eve concert in dublin where they played all night till midnight. I never said i was perfect...
Posted by: holton at June 13, 2004 10:30 AMTake heart, for The Edge has said he didn't mind people trading their shows as long as no one was profiting from it. :)
Posted by: John at June 14, 2004 07:06 PMI have a bootleg of the Elevation show in Atlanta that my wife and I went to, and I have another Elevation show, a ZooTV show, and a show from the Lovetown tour. All good stuff...
Posted by: John at June 14, 2004 07:09 PMFirst time in atlanta or second time? I was at the first show, then was offered a ticket by roe to a show in chicago but didn't want to do the drive, then again offered another ticket by roe for the second show in atlanta but had no money as was a typical situation for me at covenant.
Posted by: holton at June 14, 2004 08:24 PMU2 sucks!
Posted by: Bono at June 15, 2004 04:23 PMSecond show in Atlanta... November 2001 if I remember correctly. Great set, they played "My Sweet Lord" in memory of George Harrison who died within a couple days of the show, and "Please" which was added to some shows after 9/11.
When they come around again (rumors are next summer!) the wife and I are planning on hitting at least two shows.
Posted by: John at June 15, 2004 06:19 PMBono say it ain't so!
John, I'll be there with wifey in line as well. I told wife that one of my goals in life is to take her to a U2 concert so she can experience it and maybe see why i'm such an ubber geek about it all.
Posted by: holton at June 15, 2004 10:03 PMBeware of false Bonos!
Taking her to a show should do the trick, but I'm surprised the Slane Castle DVD (which includes what I consider to be the best ever versions of "With or Without You" and "Sunday Bloody Sunday") didn't win her over...
Posted by: John at June 16, 2004 10:30 PMhi
Posted by: bhargav at February 1, 2005 07:01 PM