Chattablogs has been, traditionally, comprised mostly of Presbyterian bloggers. By default, other Chattabloggers from other Christian backgrounds may have felt squelched in their attempts to introduce/participate in discussions related to theological differences amongst the denominations--most notably Reformed Theology vs. Dispensationalism. As we have seen in the past, these types of discussions usually result in a (usually) friendly Presbyterian gangtackle of the opposing party (which I expect will happen again as a result of this post). A risk, I suppose, but one I would hope more bloggers would not shy away from, as these discussions are often the most meaningful of all the discussions that happen in this environment.
As a result of this division, discussions related to Israel's identity and role in the world and scripture can be sharply divided. Some would argue that The Church has replaced Israel, while others would argue that God has not replaced Israel. Proponents of the first belief may find it easier to overlook aggression towards Israel and favor Israel's appeasement towards the Palestinians, while folks in the second camp might find themselves urging Israel, the only democratic nation in the Middle East, to stand up for itself.
Yasser Arafat, the father of modern terrorism, just died. While many level-headed people saw him for what he was--a terrorist--others mourn his passing, claiming he was a "freedom fighter" and a "brave leader of his people."
Regardless of your stance on Israel, in general, hatred for Israel still exists. Probably more intense than ever. And if you still believe that the Jews are still God's chosen people, that Israel is still God's chosen land--or even if you don't--Arafat's words should get you praying:
Yasser Arafat in Stockholm, Sweden -- January 30, 1996:
"We of the PLO will now concentrate all our efforts on splitting Israel psychologically into two camps...We plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian State. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion; Jews won't want to live among us Arabs. I have no use for Jews....We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem."
Sorry for getting emotional about this, but when was the last time an Israeli suicide bomber blew up a Palestinian bus? When was the last time an Israeli terrorist blew up a bomb in a schoolyard full of children?
I am, and will continue to be, praying for Israel.
Posted by colrus at November 17, 2004 01:39 AM | TrackBackI came to a pure and simple conclusion about all or most of the people in the middle east earlier this evening, basically the middle east is an area comprised of several national that are clearly populated by millions and millions of escaped mental patients. Years and years of being ass raped by their own ridiculous religions have made them all devoid of natural human emotion in fact I can almost say that they are so brain washed many of the people have ceased to really be human anymore. My solution destroy every freaking religious shrine that have captivated these people. I mean I really doubt Jesus would give a flip he's going to turn them all to dust in the end anyways so basically all these nut bags are idol worshipers and I'm pretty sure God made his feelings pretty clear about that somewhere in the ten commandments. So lets see they are all idol worshippers I believe, and they are willing to kill other people so that they can worship their idols that’s two pretty major commandments, BROKEN. So if one is believing the literal translation its very likely that every so called freedom fighter and revolutionary in the area is not only a heathen in terms of the Bible but they are all complete nut jobs according to humanistic thought. And I am talking about both sides (Israel and Palestine) when I state this.
Yeah anyways that’s my feeling on all those people over there, so really religion doesn’t rate for me when it comes to deciding what happens in the middle east. I guess you where probably hoping for post about Christianity and what not here but I am one Chattablogger who isn’t probably ever going to take any bit of these nut bags “spirituality” serious and I don’t think that the freaking city of Jerusalem or the sand that surrounds it has any bit of impact on any people (even Christians) today.
Bill, you and I disagree about the current nature of Israel, but as you can see from my blog, that doesn't stop me from condemning terrorists when I see them or rejoicing when they die.
Posted by: ryan at November 17, 2004 08:53 AMRyan-
Thank you for your post. Your statement pretty much summed up what I was trying to say in one sentence, though I expect to be confronted with "Bill, you are so wrong..." posts from people on Chattablogs. I am fully aware of the doctrinal differences and impassioned arguments from those with whom I am in disagreement. Those arguments, however, will not be enough to sway my opinion.
Outside of a biblical perspective, It's quite clear that Palestine has the world's sympathies, not Israel. While I have (albeit different levels of) sympathies for BOTH sides in this struggle, I do not shy away from the fact that I am a supporter of Israel.
Posted by: Bill at November 17, 2004 09:10 AMBill, as someone whose mother is one hundred percent Jewish, and wasn't allowed to buy a Volkswagon as a teenager because of it's NAZI origins, this is something that has actually taken me while to come around to. The way we treat Israel and Palenstine has only one application of moral weight- we have to treat everybody well. Equally. It is really dangerous to overlook violence from Israelis (which there has been) because of some outdated view that God treats the country well that defends Israel. It's just not in the Bible (given things are taken in context). I have no problem with someone siding with Israel. Shit, I do, I'm Jewish, but doing it for "Chrisian" reasons is scary to me.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 10:22 AMJohn, I don't view it as an outdated view...
I am fully aware that many on Chattablogs do...
I'm sorry it scares you. It doesn't scare me.
Obviously, there is violence on both sides, but Israeli aggression is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY overblown and Palestinian violence is given a pass, and often championed in the way it's covered, by major media...
Posted by: Bill at November 17, 2004 11:48 AMI'm praying for Israel, too.
Posted by: Hugo at November 17, 2004 02:36 PM"I'm praying for Israel too."
That's what I don't understand, is there not enough time to pray for both? Why do Christians want Israel to "win" in this situation? At the risk of sounding condescending (I'm not trying), both of these sides are fubar, I want Jesus to "win" and heal it all. My Jewish mother might gasp to hear me say that but I think it's true.
Posted by: John at November 17, 2004 03:45 PMYour question relates directly to a difference in a belief mentioned in my original post...
When I get time, I'll try to post more about it...
Posted by: Bill at November 17, 2004 04:11 PMWhile one side chooses more barbaric tools to accomplish their goal, both sides are wrong in their conflict.
Regardless of whether or not one thinks Israel is still God’s chosen people, I don’t see how we as Christians cannot pray for both sides. Praying for those one considers an enemy is something Jesus asks of us.
Posted by: Rex at November 17, 2004 05:09 PM"I'm praying for Israel too."
I'm figuring the contrast of my own post and this one is why I'll never quite ever be able to fit in on the Chattablogs discussions, clearly most on Chattablogs are playing with a whole different set of cards.
Posted by: Blogger Royale at November 17, 2004 09:27 PM