"Everybody go to church NOW!"
-Chris Rock, host of MTV VMA's, after Marilyn Manson performance
This is probably the most disturbing blog I've yet to run across. To say this person has chip on their shoulder, is quite the understatement.
My question is what is the supposed benefit to this ultimate God-less utopia that is being preached?
Posted by colrus at June 28, 2003 02:13 AM | TrackBackWow...that was unbeleivable...he probably was an ex-fundamentalist baptist from the northeast, though that says nothing about Baptist's in general. Heck, I used to have alot of anger going to a legalist school etc...thank the Lord for the joys of california-presbyterianism...
Posted by: Josiah at June 28, 2003 10:40 AMHow joyful can life be when Kurt Vonnegut is your spiritual guide? I pity these guys.
Posted by: cmwillis at June 30, 2003 10:09 AMI think you answered that question for yourself. I doubt we will ever have a utopia as you put it but the world could possibly be a lot better if people would stop talking to some imaginary guy in the sky asking him tp fix all of their problems.
You've obviously never given this lifestyle a chance, of you would know. I'd like to know what is supposed to be the benefit of your ultimate tyrannical utopia run by some figment of your imaginations who demands everything and give nothing? If you're going to criticize us, at least have the guts to say it to our face, rather than writing it in some obscure corner-of-the-web blog which no one will see. Typical of you religious types.
Posted by: woodsmoke at July 5, 2003 01:12 PMI'm a member of exchristian.net, and the world would be a utopia if we could break free of the Chains of dogma. This site helps you break free of that guilt that the church has poisoned us with.
If you think this is a hate site, think again. We love everyone :).
Posted by: I_See_Dead_People at July 5, 2003 03:05 PMI am also a member of EXCHRISTIAN.NET and I welcome anyone who wishes to rebuke our ideas BRING IT ON. As long as you please refrain from using the garden-variety, circular xtian replies. Please only creative people may join our discussions.
mb
The ex-christians are promising a utopian society no more than ex-alcoholics or ex-slaves. They only want to teach the follies of christianity and show a way out. It is also a place where people go to interact with those going through the same thing as they are. The end of christianity may not bring about a utopia, but it sure has made my live better.
Posted by: Doug at July 5, 2003 07:22 PMUtopia. It was a word invented by Thomas More for the title of his allegorgical book of political science, and cleverly the word can mean either "Good Place" or "No Place."
The "God-less" web site you despise is certainly a "Good Place" in that it is a place where people's minds are free from fanaticsm and fantasy, from religous, political, and psycholocical domination, where they are encouraged to think for themselves, and to be creative and imagine a world without compulsory participation in ideologies of any kind, a place where they will not be intimidated for being individuals with free minds. (Remember the dream of America?)
But you seem attached to another place, a place where people are driven into dark corners of shame and fear, a place where only few dictate for many what is to be (you among that few, you hope), and where all are lock-step in line with the collective fantasy of one god, one god which will someday dominate all, conquering all others, destroying their memory and the cultures and peoples that worshipped (infidels are lesser beings, right?). And all that is left is to dream together of your Utopia, singing hymns to you one god who waits for you there in his "No Place" called The Kingdom of Heaven.
Posted by: steve at July 5, 2003 08:12 PMI Timothy 4:1-7
1ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving
1ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
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Thus all unmarriad vegetarian monks goeth to hell.
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Oh if thou only followed thine owne advice!
Posted by: TruthWarrior at July 6, 2003 12:30 AM1) Your first comment was irrelevant to this thread. Not to mention ridiculous. 2) This isn't my advice. It is the Word of God. And, yes, I TRY to follow it everyday. But I AM human, and fall short, and that's why there's grace.
In order to understand the bible, you have to take it on faith FIRST, and then it's meaning is revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. Not an easy concept to reconcile, but truth, nonetheless...
In response to all the clever bashing, comments, jabs, and rebuttals both in this post, and on the aforementioned website, let me just say this. There is nothing new under the sun. I've heard it all before. Even from family members and "friends." I'm no longer shocked. I expect and accept persecution, mocking, and ridicule. I am not ashamed of what I believe. And my faith only gets stronger.
2ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables
That's what they all say: You gotta' have faith. It that the best you can do?
Why don't you come to http://www.vanallens.com/forum/ and we can duke it out? We can talk about it... :)
-Stephen U.
Posted by: I_See_Dead_People at July 6, 2003 03:10 AM"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables"
Yes this is true for christianity. It is true for anything for that matter. But this proves nothing. It is a boogeyman warning. Nothing more.
There will always be mockers of whatever you do. Mocking is just a part of life. Atheists mock christians. Christians mock atheists. Republicans mock democrats. Democrats mock republicans. Anarchists mock them both. ;)
So of course you shouldn't give in because people mock you! No one should. Rather change comes when you realize what you follow is not the truth. Mockers though might make you think and question things yourself... god forbid! But it's you who makes your own life, your own choice. Well unless you lord it over to fables and storytellers.
What is truth and what is fable? Is bible truth because it says it's so? Are you following Jesus cause he's warm and fuzzy? Would YOU send anyone to hell to be tortured for eternity? Does the word shoel even mean hell?
I have found that man made god in his own wretched image. Recently god's been made to be a nicer fellow then he was in the Dark Ages. Isn't it nice people aren't burning witches anymore? Can't say the same for the poor little Harry Potter books though. Not to mention people's fried minds.
Such an odd thing this religion.
Posted by: TruthWarrior at July 6, 2003 03:23 AM