This is Life!: Revolutions Around the Cruciform Axis

I don't know if it was because I was raised in the RC church that I think about this differently than other evangelicals or RM folk but it always struck me as odd that Sunday corporate worship would be used (primarily) as an evangelistic opportunity. In some of the RM churches I've attended, it seemed that music, preaching, the reading of Scripture (if done at all), and communion were mostly directed at getting to the individual's response, the "invitation." This does not sit well with me. And the way many of these services were done, to be honest, I'd be embarrassed to bring an unbeliever into these sittings.

Why does it have to be either/or? I like what someone recently posted on EO Eucharistic practice - that's intended for the comfort and strengthening of the faithful. I don't like how we Protestants have removed all the mystery.

I certainly don't like altar calls (relics of that neo-Pelagian, Finney), but I think that worship services should be evangelistic in the sense that they should proclaim Christ in a manner such that people could come to rest on Him for salvation.

I'm with you on this one. Better said, I'm with the Church on this one, as it seems to have taught for centuries that "holy things are for the holy". The description I've recently read in Kh. Frederica's book (at the corner of east and now) concerning catechumens, the "doors", baptism, eucharist and other sacraments being kept secret from pagans was humbling and fascination.

You stated this well. Worship is for the Body, not those outside.

I came here from Baeder's blog and find this topic to be at the crux of much in the Em experience. (See the post on my blog titled "Missional or Ministerial?"
I have come to two conclusions:
1: True worship (in spirit and truth) can only be an activity of the regenerate soul.
2: We (the Church, the regenerate, those being saved) are called to public and private acts worship.

1 is self explanatory.
2 may need explaining. In short, we are called to private acts of worship in the Community of faith that are meant to be meaningful among the Redeemed. Confessions, prostration, prophesying and the like do not make sense to unbelievers and are meant to magnify Christ as well as build up the Body. But, we are also called to public acts of worship which may take on many forms. Acts of charity, evangelism, and intentional meetings designed for pre-believers to engage in relationship with the Community of faith can also be considered acts of worship in that their primary goal is to bring honor to the Creator of all men's souls.
Great discussion.

First, what is EM and RM?

Second, I think worship is evangelical in the "taste and see" sense--which is probably not the kind of evangelism you were thinking of. Yes, I read lots of books, heard many sermons, and had many conversations with the priest on my way to Orthodoxy but, to large degree, it was participating in the worship of the Church that made me want to become part of the Church.

Cliff as an Anglican I totally agree.

Amen. This is what "Archimandrite" James B. Jordan says, too. I forget exactly where, but I know he has argued for the same view. Oh, and I used quotation marks because he's neither unmarried nor Eastern Orthodox. He has, however, had more than a little Orthodox influence.

http://biblicalhorizons.com

Well, this is cool.

Have any of you been to ancientfutureworship? That is an interesting place where Bob Webber places his thoughts.

I agree to a certain degree with the idea that worship is just that. It is not to be structured to be solely didactic nor solely evangelical. But I would like to echo Chrysostomos. The Spirit can transform non-believers through the liturgy. At its best, the baptist "altar call" is about this. At its worse, it is about emotional manipulation. All our symbols and tools for worship have this same quality if not as explicit.

We also may want to ask where, if anywhere, hospitality comes into our worship. I worry that if we take Cliff's line too far we can run the risk of creating something insular that actually drives people away.

ancientfutureworship

This link works. Sorry about the other, gang!

Totally agree with the premise, but by saying "thus, worship is FOR the Church and not FOR those outside the Church" the corollary contradicts the premise. Worship is FOR God.

Also, if the word "worship" is referring to an hour on Sunday mornings, then I'm afraid that's a limited definition. Worship is a lifestyle--you're living for God or you're not.

Therefore, if those outside the Church are not allowed to experience worship taking place (in a Christian's everyday life OR at a specified Sunday morning gathering), then we've missed the mark big time.

We've GOT to get past the idea that "worship" is only when our thoughts, voices, and hands are lifted to God. This is only a small part of a life of worship. It's a lifestyle of making choices that bring honor to God. When I introduce myself to a first time guest and help them find a seat on a Sunday morning, I consider that worship...I think God is pleased and honored by that. And I think He's glorified even more when that person comes back week after week seeking to know Him more and then one day finally "gets it" and becomes a worshipper himself/herself (in part because of the warm welcome they received their first day).

So maybe being open to unchurched guests on a Sunday morning shouldn't be seen as "evangelism" but instead as a chance to welcome in soon-to-be-worshippers. The "gathered community" consists of several Christ-followers. Since every individual Christ-follower is CALLED to be evangelistic, the "gathered community" should be that much more evangelistic...even when they're "at worship"...(since worship is a lifestyle).

I guess by RM you mean the Restoration Movement - churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ, and Christian Churches.

Ultimately, true worship can only be directed to God. Worship towards anything else is idolatry.

I wonder if the the term "evangelistic" as you use it is not broad enough. IOW, evangelism is not just for the unbeliever but also for the believer, or maybe even primarily for the believer.

Cliff-

Premise: Worship is solely directed God-ward.

Would it be a concern to you if there is no biblical basis for the premise? Would it suffice for it to be a 'church teaching'? Is it a church teaching?

Some food for thought:

Acts 2:1-41 St. Peter presides in an open air worship service complete with altar call, adding 3000 to the ranks. The form of worship is to declare His wonders (2:11).

1 Cor 14:25 St. Paul explains how a church service can result in conversion. The form of worship is the prophetic word. It lays bare the heart of the unbeliever.

Blessings,

Bob(A.)